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Wednesday, July 19, 2017

Videos Of "Four White Horses" Caribbean Hand Clap Rhyme (Part II)

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part Ii of a two part pancocojams series on the Caribbean song and hand clap rhyme "Four White Horses".

This post showcases five videos of "Four White Horses" hand clap rhymes. The Addendum to this post provides several suggested performance instructions for this hand clapping game.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/07/four-white-horses-caribbean-song-hand.html for Part I of this series. Part I presents selected comments from Mudcat folk music discussion thread and from other online sources about the origin of the song/rhyme "Four White Horses". Text (word only) examples of this song's lyrics are also included in this post.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composers of "Four White Horses" and thanks to all those who have collected this song. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post, thanks to all those who are featured in these videos, and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.

PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
Judging from its presence on the internet-including lyrics pages, questions about its origin and meaning, and YouTube videos, the song "Four White Horses" appears to be relatively familiar in the United States, at least compared to many other Caribbean songs. Although there is general agreement that "Four White Horses" is a Caribbean song, some websites give its origin as the United States Virgin Islands while others indicate that this song comes from Jamaica. Given the number and quality of the sources that say that this song is from the United States Virgin Island, I believe that origin is the correct one.

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SHOWCASE VIDEOS
These videos are given in chronological order based on their publishing date on YouTube, with the oldest dated video given first. All of these videos are from the United States.

Example #1: Four White Horses



Vincent Bates Published on Mar 23, 2011

Four white horses on a river. Ay, ay, ay, up tomorrow. Up tomorrow is a rainy day. Come on, join in our shadow play. Shadow play is a ripe banana. Ay, ay, ay, up tomorrow. Up tomorrow is a rainy day

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Example #2: Four White Horses Clapping Games



Julie Jacobsma Published on Nov 3, 2011

6th Graders create 4 or 8-beat clapping patterns to go with the Jamaican song, "Four White Horses" and perform them for the class.

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Example #3: Four White Horses clapping game



Clover Ridge Music, Published on May 19, 2014

Learn the clapping game to the Caribbean folk song, then make up your own pattern!

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Example #4: Four White Horses Clapping Game



Josh Manfroni, Published on Jun 22, 2016

Some of our 2nd grade students demonstrating the clapping game for "Four White Horses." Great job ladies!

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Example #5: 12-9-16 Fabulous Friday Winner



Ms. Flatebo Published on Dec 9, 2016

This is Mrs. Groen's fourth grade class performing "Four White Horses", which is a folk song from the Virgin Islands. This class did a great job learning this tough hand-clapping game. Some of the groups even alternated going over and under with their "high tens".

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ADDENDUM: SUGGESTED PERFORMANCE INSTRUCTIONS
These performance instructions are given in no particular order.
Quote #1:
From http://kodaly.hnu.edu/song.cfm?id=723
"Four White Horses"....

Kodály Center. The American Folk Song Collection ... Four White Horses. Analysis Share .... Collected by Floice Lindgren Lund, Virgin Islands, 1960. Informant

Directions: Two sets of partners form a square ("ones" and "twos"),
each person standing across from his or her partner.
On first 8 beats all clap hands out to the side, clapping each neighbors' palm.
For the remaining 8-beat phrases, the pattern is as follows. (One number = one beat)
1. The "ones" clap partners palms above shoulder level, the "twos" below.
2. All clap own hands together.
3. The "ones" clap partners palms below, and the "twos" above.
4. All clap own hands together.
5. The "ones" clap palms of neighbor on the right, the "twos" to the left.
6. All clap own hands together.
7. Reverse 5. (the "ones" turning to the left, etc.)
8. All clap own hands together"

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Quote #2
From http://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=2200
"Four White Horses

Game Instructions

A Four Player Game

Four kids stand in a cross. Two kids face each other on one line of the cross, while the others face each other on the other line of the cross. One pair claps high in the air and the other pair claps low down. Then they switch.

Clapping Instructions:

On the First 4 Lines: Clap partner's hands, clap your hands, clap partner's hands, clap your hands.

On the 5th line: Go to the side partner - clap side partner's hands, clap your hands.

On the 6th Line: Go to the other side partner - clap side partner's hands, clap your hands."

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This concludes Part II of this series on "Four White Horses"

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

"Four White Horses" Caribbean Song & Hand Clap Rhyme, Part I: Speculative Origins & Lyric Examples

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series on the Caribbean song and hand clap rhyme "Four White Horses".

This post presents selected comments from Mudcat folk music discussion thread and from other online sources about the origin of the song/rhyme "Four White Horses". Text (word only) examples of this song's lyrics are also included in this post.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/07/videos-of-four-white-horses-caribbean.html for Part II of this series. Part II showcases five video examples of "Four White Horses" hand clap rhymes. The Addendum to this post provides several suggested performance instructions for this hand clapping game.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composers of "Four White Horses" and thanks to all those who have collected this song. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post.

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE-
Judging from its presence on the internet-including lyrics pages, questions about its origin and meaning, and YouTube videos, the song "Four White Horses" appears to be relatively familiar in the United States, at least compared to many other Caribbean songs. Although there is general agreement that "Four White Horses" is a Caribbean song, some websites give its origin as the United States Virgin Islands while others indicate that this song comes from Jamaica. Given the number and quality of the sources that say that this song is from the United States Virgin Island, I believe that origin is the correct one.

"Four White Horses" is described as an "old Caribbean song". Since that song has no known composers and no known composition date (or even century or decade that I've found), it can properly be considered a "traditional" Caribbean song and a "folk song". I have, however, found two collection dates for this song: Floice Lindgren Lund, Virgin Islands, 1960 http://kodaly.hnu.edu/song.cfm?id=723 and Karen Ellis, 1976 on St. Croix, United States Virgin Island http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=9634.

In addition, this comment about the collection of the song "Four White Horse" was posted to a YouTube discussion thread for a video of that hand clap rhyme: "elorenz57, June 2017: "Lois Choksy, the amazing Kodaly music educator who taught at the University of Calgary for many years, collected this song and game from the Caribbean island where she had a home..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqr44wfy9lA

As is the case with most if not all folk songs and rhymes, there are many different versions of "Four White Horses" and there are various meanings that have been attributed to this song's (rhyme's) lyrics.
I'm not interested in judging whether one version or another is correct or incorrect. However, it seems to me that it might be possible to determine which versions may be older than others, if not "the oldest known" versions. And it also seems to me that it's appropriate to speculate about the early origins of this folk song whether those speculations can be proven or not.

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SELECTED COMMENTS ABOUT "FOUR WHITE HORSES" FROM MUDCAT DISCUSSION THREAD
From http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=9634 Four White Horses??

Pancocojams Editor:
These selected comments are numbered for referencing purposes only.

1.
"Subject: Four White Horses??
From: Cleo
Date: 13 Mar 99 - 01:05 AM

I once heard a group of kids sing this song...
Four white horses on the river,
aye, aye, aye, up tomorrow,
up tomorrow is a rainy day.
Come and join our shadow play.
Shadow play is a ripe banana,
aye, aye, aye, up tomorrow,
up tomorrow is a rainy day.
I just wondered where it came from and if it's only supposed to be a nonsense song, or it actually means something. Any help?

Thanks, Cleo"

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2.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:36 PM

Karen Ellis collected this in 1976 on St. Croix, USVI. A live sound field recording was made and submitted to the Folk Archive at the Library of Congress at that time. The words at that time were:
4 white horses on a rainbow
Hey hey hey up tomorrow
Up tomorrow is a rainy day
Come on out and let's shadow play
Shadow play is a ripe banana
Hey hey hey up tomorrow. (a salty sexy rhyme).
Still another version goes "4 white horses on the river" and "Come on up to the shallow bay/ Shallow bay is a ripe banana." "

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3.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 04:01 PM

Here are the original lyrics to the song:

Four white horses, on the river,
hey, hey, hey, up tomorrow.
Up tomorrow is a rainy day,
come on up to the shallow bay.
Shallow bay is a ripe banana,
up tomorrow is a rainy day!

It is an old carribean folk song"

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4.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: GUEST,Ripe Banana
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 04:48 AM

This jaunty tune actually originated in 1963 in the Caribbean, and is closer to the version posted by Cleo:

Four white horses, on the river
Aye, aye, aye, up tomorrow
Up tomorrow is a rainy day
Come on and join the Shadow Gay
Shadow Gay in the last cabana
Aye, aye, aye, up tomorrow
Bite my banana."

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5.
"Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four White Horses
From: MickyMan
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 06:25 PM

When I learned this children's game in the late 70s as a graduate level music educationn student at the Kodaly Musical Training Institute, we were told that the "up tomorrow" was derived from an erlier lyric of "hope tomorrow". These Kodaly Method people sourced their stuff bigtime ... and the lyric makes more sense when you know this. I taught it as a children's clapping game song similar to the one listed earlier. I'll bet there are many variants, one for every neighborhood girl gang in the Carribean. Great kid's game song!"

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6.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: GUEST,k
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 05:35 PM

well im caribbean and it seem to me as if it is said differently then the way i learned it when i was a child for i've learned it as

4 white horses on a rainbow
hey hey hey up tomorrow
up tomorrow is a rainy day
come on down to the shallow bay
a shallow bay is a rotten banana
hey hey hey down tomorrow"

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7.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 05:19 PM

GUESTk, that sure sounds like the folk process at work!"

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8.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:18 AM

This is pure uninformed guesswork, but might the song be descended from a shanty? I've never heard it, but on reading the words one of those 'Sally Brown' sort of tunes seemed to be struggling for utterance.

Could 'Shadow day is a ripe banana' once have been 'Sally Brown's a bright mulatta?'

'Four white horses' appear in versions of 'Jordan', which is sometimes a spiritual and sometimes closer to a shanty.

Valmai"
-snip-
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_shanty:
"A shanty (also spelled "chantey," "chanty") is a type of work song that was once commonly sung to accompany labor on board large merchant sailing vessels".

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/04/sally-brown-sally-sue-brown-sea-shanty.html for information about and some examples of "Sally Brown" (also known as "Shallow Brown") shanties.

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9.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 04:51 AM

I learnt this song in Barbados when I was there a couple of years ago as a visiting artist - looking at how they teach their traditions in school. The words they use are

Three white horses, in a stable
hey hey we go up tomorrow
Up tomorrow at the break of day
Come along with your shallow plate
Shallow plate is a white mulatto
hey hey we go - up tomorrow
Up tommorrow at the break of day
Come along with your shallow plate

Tendency noew to sing green banana in place of white mulsatto - in fact they have fun changing the coloutr of the banana - blue, gold, red, whatever one child shouts out."

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10.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 12:52 PM

Valmai said exactly what I was thinking! I was immediately reminded by

Shallow Bay is a ripe banana

Shadow play is a ripe banana

Shadow Gay in the last cabana


of "Sally (Shallow) Brown is a bright mulatta" and the shanty. Dave's hearing of the song seems to confirm this. I would love to hear the tune this is sung to."

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11.
"Subject: RE: Four White Horses??
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 16 - 08:02 AM

four white horses
in the stable
hey hey we go
off tomorrow
off tomorrow is a break up day
come along with your shallow plate
shallow plate is a white banana
hey hey we go
off tomorrow"

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COMMENTS ABOUT "FOUR WHITE HORSES" (INCLUDING OTHER LYRIC VERSIONS) FROM OTHER ONLINE SITES

Pancocojams Editor:
These selected comments are numbered for referencing purposes only.

1. From http://www.newworldrecords.org/liner_notes/80427.pdf
"31. FOUR WHITE HORSES ON A RAINBOW
Schoolgirls, St. Thomas, 6/8/82
This hand-clapping game was performed by eight- and nine-year-old girls during recess
at school.

Four white horses on a rainbow,
Eh, eh, eh, up tomorrow,
Up tomorrow is a rainy day,
Come on down to the shadow play,
Shadow play is a ripe banana, Eh, eh, eh, up tomorrow...."
-snip-
This is the 31st song that is featured in this pdf file. That file also includes a rather extensive write up about the history of the United States Virgin Island as well as information about certain music forms including "Quadrille", "Masquerades" and "Scratch bands (also called "Fungi music" in the British Virgin
Islands.

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2. From http://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=2200 "Four White Horses"
"This is a traditional Caribbean song. In one interpretation, it's about four white horses traveling on a river in a boat or on a barge. It's going to rain the next day, so they'd better come back up river to where it's safe in the shallow bay.

Four White Horses
Hand Clapping Rhyme
Four white horses, on the river,
Hey, hey, hey, up tomorrow,
Up tomorrow is a rainy day.
Come on up to the shallow bay,
Shallow bay is a ripe banana,
Up tomorrow is a rainy day.

Notes
Alternate lyrics:

Four white horses on a rainbow,
Hey, hey, hey, up tomorrow*
Up tomorrow is a rainy day,
Come on down to the shadow play,
Shadow play is a ripe banana,
Hey, hey, hey, up tomorrow.

*"Up tomorrow" may have originally been "hope tomorrow". There are versions with it as "for tomorrow"....
-snip-
This page also includes performance instructions. Those instructions are posted in Part II of this pancocojams series.

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3. From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqr44wfy9lA
sysphus13, 2012
"Great video, thanks. Being my kids even thought both of these versions were strange and senseless, as did I , i'm changing it to: Hey, Hey, Hey, Hope tomorrow, hope tomorrow is a rainy day, come on up to the shallow bay, shallow bay has some ripe bananas, hope tomorrow is a rainy day. :)"

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From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqr44wfy9lA
Elorenz57, June 2017
"Lois Choksy, the amazing Kodaly music educator who taught at the University of Calgary for many years, collected this song and game from the Caribbean island where she had a home. The words were: "Come on up to the shallow bay. Shallow bay is a ripe banana, Up tomorrow is a rainy day." "Shallow Bay" was the name of the bay close to her home. It was in the shape of a banana, hence "Shallow bay is a ripe banana."Thought you might be interested in the history of the text. Enjoy."

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This concludes Part I of this pancocojams series on "Four White Horses".

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

Is This Old Children's Cheer The Source Of VSU's "Who Cheers The Best" Stomp & Shake Cheer?

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams posts points out the close similarities between a text (word) version of an old children's foot stomping cheer with two texts and video examples of Virginia State University (VSU)'s often imitated stomp & shake cheer "Who Cheers The Best". Given those similarities, dependent on their composition dates, it seems likely to me that a version of this children's cheer is the source for VSU's cheer.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the Virginia State University Woo Woo cheerleaders who are featured in this post's embedded videos. Hat tip to Ebony Janice Peace. the publisher of a YouTube video about Black children's rhymes, and hat tip to Nikkole Salter, a commenter on that video's discussion thread in 2015 whose comment I've highlighted in this post.

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE:
Whenever the spirit moves me, I visit YouTube in search of examples of specific categories of children's rhymes and cheers, or examples of specific rhymes or cheers. Yesterday, I happened upon this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzHL_1PdbY "Let's Discuss: Black Girl Childhood Hand Games and Sing Songs" published by Ebony Janice Peace, Published on Aug 4, 2014. In that video Ebony Janice Peace discusses her memory of children's hand clap rhymes and marvels about how so many of the same rhymes are known and performed by Black girls throughout the United States. Ms. Peace also discusses how some of those rhymes from her childhood and some contemporary Black girls rhymes have inappropriate lyrics.

As a collector of African American children's rhymes and cheers I was interested in hearing Ms. Peace's opinions on this subject. And I was delighted to read several examples of rhymes and cheers that were posted by commenters in that video's discussion thread. As it turns out, I had forgotten that I had watched this video before and had previously added some examples from that video's discussion thread to my collection of what I refer to as "foot stomping cheers", including this comment that was posted by Nikkole Salter in 2014:
"This is an L.A. perspective:... This first one is not so much a hand game as much as it is a cipher: You know, I shake the best, hey, hey/ You know, from the east to the west! My name's (enter your name) and my favorite color's black (or whatever color you like) / I took your man and you won't get him back, hey hey / You know, I shake the best, hey, hey/ You know, from the east to the west! (and every person gets a chance, state your color and your bravado in rhyme)... Then there was this other call & response cipher (which I don't hear too many people mention outside my generation and region)... Tether ball, tether ball/Oosha, asha!/Tether ball, tether ball/Oosha, asha! My name's (enter your name) (tether ball), super cool, (tether ball) You mess with me (tether ball) You's a fool (tether ball) I got this man (tether ball) On my mind (tether ball) You mess with him (tether ball) Your butt is straight up mine. Oooh. Tether ball, tether ball/Oosha, Asha! etc. -- You make up your own rhyme of bravado...

Unfortunately, Ms. Salter didn't include which decade these examples come from. However, her comment that few people "outside of her generation" know these examples suggests that they probably come from the 1990s, or earlier. I've collected three examples of "Tether Ball" -including Ms. Salter's example- and each of these examples are from Los Angeles, California.* A woman who shared an example of "Tether Ball" on my no longer active cocojams website indicated that she remembered it from the early 1990s. If Ms. Salter's version of "Tether Ball" (which is very similar to the other two that I've collected) is from the 1990s, then it's reasonable to assume that the other example in that comment "You know, I Share The Best" is also from the 1990s. As of this date, I haven't found any other "I Cheer The Best" children's cheers except those cheers that are patterned after Virginia State University's very popular stomp & shake cheer entitled "Who Cheers The Best".
-snip-
*Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/09/foot-stomping-cheers-alphabetical-list_22.html Foot Stomping Cheers Alphabetical List (P- Z)

Also, click Here's an excerpt from https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/05/an-overview-of-foot-stomping-cheers.html and https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/05/overview-of-stomp-shake-cheerleading.html

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CHILDREN'S FOOT STOMPING CHEER - "YOU KNOW, I CHEER THE BEST"
You know, I shake the best,
hey, hey/
You know, from the east to the west!
My name's (enter your name)
and my favorite color's black (or whatever color you like)/
I took your man and you won't get him back,
hey hey /
You know, I shake the best,
hey, hey/
You know, from the east to the west!


(and every person gets a chance, state your color and your bravado in rhyme)...
-Nikkole Salter (Los Angeles, California), comment in discussion thread for vlog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzHL_1PdbY
Let's Discuss: Black Girl Childhood Hand Games and Sing Songs")
-snip-
I reformatted this example from sentence form to line form.

Nikkole Salter introduced this cheer by saying "This first one is not so much a hand game as much as it is a cipher". I also want to highlight her points that these were "call and response ciphers", that "every person gets a chance, state your color and your bravado in rhyme", and that "you said your name" and "make up your own rhyme of bravado". These descriptions fit the conclusions that I've made about the recreational sub-category of children's cheers that I refer to as "foot stomping cheers". Prior to some of these cheers being adapted by mainstream children's cheerleading squads, these cheers were usually informally performed by two or more African American girls between the ages of 5-12 years who were pretending to be cheerleaders. "Traditionally", these call & response cheers had one soloist for each iteration. At the "end" of the cheer, the group repeated the complete cheer with a new soloist and this pattern continued until every person in the group had an equal turn as the soloist. (Notice Nikkole Salter's comment that "every person gets a chance, state your color and your bravado in rhyme".

In contrast, the stomp & shake cheer "Who Cheers The Best" isn't a call & response cheer, but is chanted by the squad in unison.

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VIRGINIA STATE UNIVERSITY CHEER WHO CHEERS THE BEST

VSU Woo Woo's 2008 "Who Shakes The Best"



BlaWaiian2008, Published on Mar 17, 2013

VSU Cheerleaders (Virginia State University)
-snip-
Here's the words to that cheer:
Shake it to the east.
Shake it to the west.
It really doesn't matter who shakes the best.
Shake it to the east.
Shake it to the west.
It really doesn't matter who shakes the best.
Shake it to the east.
Shake it to the west.
Cause everybody knows that we shake the best.
-Virginia State University Woo Woos, transcribed by Azizi Powell from the video.
-snip-
In a 2011 video of the Woo Woos performing "Who Shakes The Best" the words are slightly changed, but the routine is basically the same. Here's that text example and that video:

VSU Woo Woo (Who shakes Da Best)



TrueVSU1882 Published on Mar 31, 2011

WHO SHAKES DA BEST [version #2)
Shake it to the east.
Shake it to the west.
It really doesn't matter who shakes the best.

Shake it to the east.
Shake it to the west.
It really doesn't matter who shakes the best.

Ah hey!
'Cause we shake the best
Everybody knows that we shake the best
To the East.
To the West.
Shake it!
-from VSU Woo Woo (Who shakes Da Best video, Mar 31, 2011,
This is my transcription of that cheer from that video

****
The earliest example of this stomp & shake cheer that I've found is a 2007 video of a Virginia high school cheerleading squad (Prince Edward High School's Sassys) performing "We Shake The Best" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jnwq5Pq40A SASSY (We Shake The Best). The words to that cheer are the same as the words to "Who Shakes The Best".

Several commenters writing in the discussion thread noted that that squad learned that cheer from the Virginia Woo Woos at cheer camp & because their cheerleader was a member of the Woo Woo squad.

Here's that video: Prince Edward High School, Virginia - "We Shake The Best"



Uploaded by woowooworkit on Feb 17, 2007
-snip-
Prince Edward High School, Virginia (Sassy cheerleaders, 2007 (This is a Virginia State University cheer that this squad learned by attending the cheer camp conducted by the VSU Woo Woo cheerleaders).

Notice that the name of the publisher of that video refers to the "Woo Woos".

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PANCOCOJAMS CONCLUDING NOTE:
In addition to the similar titles, the old children's cheer (that Nikkole Salter referred to as a "cipher") and VSU's stomp and shake cheer have
1. very similar titles
2. references to "the east and the west"

I don't know when the cheer "You Know, I Shake The Best" was first chanted, or when Virginia State University (VSU) first performed their stomp & shake cheer "Who Shakes The Best". My position is that it's likely that someone from VSU's Woo Woo squad creatively adapted this children's cheer. I'm not sure that VSU's Woo Woos are happy aabout this, but currently it seems that their "Who Cheers The Best" cheer has become one of the most imitated stomp & shake cheers today by high school, middle schools, and community stomp & shake cheerleader squads as well as by mainstream children's cheerleader squads that incorporate modified stomp & shake cheers and movements into their repertoires.

If you know this children's cheer, for the folkloric record, please share the example that you know, along with when you learned it (the decade) and the city/state where you learned it in the comment section below. Thanks!

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Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

Tuesday, July 18, 2017

"Bomba Puertorriqueña" YouTube Video Discussion Sub-Thread About The African Roots Of Bomba Drumming & Dancing And About Race & Racism In The Caribbean And In The United States

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post documents a sub-thread of the discussion thread for the YouTube video "Bomba Puertorriqueña". That video is also embedded in this post.

This sub-thread begins with a discussion about the African roots of Bomba drumming and dancing and continues with comments about race and racism in the Caribbean and in the United States.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, socio-cultural, entertainment, and aesthetic purposes.

I'm interested in documenting excerpts of YouTube video discussion threads because I believe that these excerpts (among many others) should be considered folkloric artifacts that should be read, preserved, and studied for the information that they contain and for other socio-cultural reasons, including the perceptions and attitudes of commenters and the ways that communication occurs on these online social media discussion threads.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are featured in this video, and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post. Thanks also to the publisher of this video on YouTube.

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SHOWCASE VIDEO: Bomba Puertorriqueña



dan vazquez Published on Sep 14, 2013

Delegación de Loiza en el 5to encuentro del tambor en Juncos. Debo hacer la aclaración este video lo tomo mi esposa Tita!
-snip-
Google translate from Spanish to English: Delegation of Loiza in the 5th encounter of the drum in Juncos. I must clarify this video I take my wife Tita!

-snip-
Statistics [as of 7/18/2017 2:10 PM]
total views: 637,146 views

likes: 4,117 dislikes: 174

total # of comments: 450

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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM A SUB-THREAD OF THE YOUTUBE VIDEO "Bomba Puertorriqueña"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZummXOaoXuo&list=RDQMpRXHg7WufZY

This YouTube discussion thread excerpt consists of all of the comments that were posted in this sub-thread from the first comment in 2015 to the last comments (as of the date of this post's publication) that were posted on July 17, 2017. The comments are given in chronological order as they were found in that YouTube discussion thread- from the oldest comment to the most recent comments.

As per the policies of this blog, I use amended spelling for profanity and for the referent that is often referred to as "the n word". That amended spelling is indicated by an asterisk after that word (* means that that word is fully spelled out in that comment.) However, I've retained the letter abbreviations for profanity in these comments.

I used Google translate to translate words from Spanish to English. Those translations are given "as is" below the comment, except for the words "bomba" and "plena" which are sometimes given in that translation tool as "bomb" and "full". When that occurred, I added the correct terms in italics.

I'd let to direct special attention to the comment by Herminio Román Morales that is given as #34 below. That comment provides some detailed information about bomba music.

Numbers are assigned for referencing purposes only.

2015
1. Cubapanablacc
"So proud to see the African culture survived through out the Caribbean. Blacks from the U.S. especially the south don't seem to understand that black people exist in Spanish countries especially. Respect pa' mi gente bella, mi gente negra, viva los afro-Latinos"
-snip-
"Pa 'my beautiful people, my black people, live the Afro-Latinos"

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2. Jerome Theseus
"+Cubapanablacc Yes it sure did!!! Alive and well!!! The US blacks have lost all of their African Roots. It also shows you that people who were slaves under Spain, had more freedom than in American. American slavery was the worst in history sick shit... I read in a article that Slaves under spain were allowed to get married as well."

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3. Cubapanablacc
"+Jerome Theseus yea it's sad and very true. What's even worse is they make fun of us afro Latinos even though we share the same ancestry"

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3. Jerome Theseus
"Yes, they are quick to say we don't like being black. Yet, our culture is heavily influenced by Africans. +Cubapanablacc

****
2016
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4. Michael Perez
"We are proud people, it stems from the Taino side more than anything, the other two thirds of our culture simply influenced this style of music."

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5. Jerome Theseus
"+Michael Perez Stop spreading lies, and taking away from the African influence. BOMBA has nothing to do with Taino."

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6. Cubapanablacc
"Pura musica africana y la cultura tambien. Lo siento Pero los taino Indians no tienen na' que ver en esto, and that's real
-snip-
"Pure African music and culture too. Sorry But the Taino Indians do not have na 'to see in this"...

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7. Jerome Theseus
"+Cubapanablacc exactamente!! tu eres Cubano? yo igual!"
-snip-
"Cubapanablacc exactly !! You are cuban me too!"

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8. Cubapanablacc
"+Jerome Theseus si soy afro Americano y Cubano y humildemente representando con mucho orgullo
-snip-
"Yes, I am African American and Cuban and humbly representing with much pride"

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9. Michael Perez
"+Jerome Theseus This music started in Mayaguez from the African and Taino slaves. The music itself has spanish origins like all Carribean music. Trying to tell a f___king* Puerto Rican how his own culture started, good one kid.

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10. Cubapanablacc
"+Michael Perez bro your wrong. Puerto Rico isn't the only Caribbean country with this type of music. this music is conga and if you didn't know the Africans were the ones who taught the Spaniards music. if you know anything about the slave trials in the southern region of the U.S. the slaves used to come together and sing and dance and it was the same minus the Spanish language, but even in bomba dance and songs there's still African language used"

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11. Michael Perez
"+Cubapanablacc Incorrect, this style of music, Bomba, is influenced by African music, but originated in Mayaguez. It was used by BOTH Taino and African and later the Spanish decima or seis.

As for Africans teaching Spaniards music, that is also false. Their music began on the Iberian peninsula, long before the use of African slaves in Spain.

Your counter arguments are falling flat. You're not just arguing with a history major, but someone who has had the opportunity to study at UPRM and learn more about my own culture. Trying to deny the integration of three unique cultures into one dance is pathetic."

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12. Cubapanablacc
"+Michael Perez tu eres Bien payaso primo. Africans used to control the Iberian peninsula centuries before the slave trade started where they taught the Spaniards music math, logic, and much more. Aprende compa de la historia del moors. Spaniards now are tryna erase that part of history because it has to do with Africa. all of this is already documented bro
-snip-
“tu eres Bien payaso primo+ = You are good clown cousin

"Aprende compa de la historia del moors" = Learn about moors history

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13. Michael Perez
"+Cubapanablacc I mean, most Spanish music is influenced by Greek and Italian styles, but I'd guess you know more, right? You're like the Mexicans who still think California is their territory lol."

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14. Cubapanablacc
"+Michael Perez and who you think taught the Greeks and the latins. Africans did, bro I promise if you research it youd be surprised what youd learn"

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15. Michael Perez
"+Cubapanablacc Research isn't foreign to me , once again, I am a four year history major. Greeks have no African influence in their music. The styles are far too different to even be relevant to each other.
You need to drop Wikipedia. I'm done arguing with somebody trying to teach me a culture that has been passed down in my family for generations since the first Perez landed in PR."

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16. Cubapanablacc
"+Michael Perez apparently it is, and no I don't f---k* with Wikipedia at all, Pero si tu lo dices compa
-snip-
"Pero si tu lo dices compa = But if you say so"

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17. hrivera007
"+Michael Perez la Bomba no es de Mayagüez, es de Loíza, traída por los esclavos que llegaron a Loíza. Ahora si estas hablando de Plena eso es otra cosa. Unos dicen que es de Ponce y otros de Mayagüez.
Pero Bomba es puro África. Ni los Taínos o españoles bailaban o tocaban tambores así. Yo también soy puertorriqueno."
-snip-
"The Bomba is not from Mayagüez, it is from Loíza, brought by the slaves who arrived at Loíza. Now if you are talking about Plena that is something else. Some say it is from Ponce and others from Mayaguez.
But Bomba is pure Africa. Neither the Taínos nor Spaniards danced or played drums like that. I'm a Puerto Rican too."

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18. Cubapanablacc
"+hrivera007 exactamente hermano pero ese man piensa que sabe to'. en vida real fren, no vine aqui para discutir nada con nadie. vine aqui porque la calidad de la musica y cultura esta bien fuerte and is something all us afro-Latinos and Latinos in general need to cherish"
-snip-
"Exactly brother but that man thinks he knows to '. In real life fren, I did not come here to discuss anything with anyone. I came here because the quality of music and culture is very strong"

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19. hrivera007
"+Cubapanablacc así es. Tienes razón."
-snip-
"so is. You're right."

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20. Sean rodriguez
"+Michael Perez papa bomba is all African, it's from Loiza and other parts on the eastern side of the island where most of us (black Puerto Ricans) are concentrated. This has nothing to do with tainos at all. African dancing and music is present in many Latin American countries mostly the Caribbean. This is coming from a Puerto Rican with just a bachelors degree and no research done.... We should already know who we are, I'm not attacking you... We just gotta dish out the right info. I'm from barranquitas btw an island town if you know where that's at, everyone around me is mostly European descent. Soo if I got all this info on lock, you should also."
-snip-
"papa bomba" = "Father bomba:

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21. Espanol Guerra
"+Cubapanablacc Their is only one Spanish country and it is called Spain. Is Cuba a Spanish country or a country that speaks Spanish. Their is a big difference."

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22. Cubapanablacc
"Your absolutely right but what's your point there?"

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23. Espanol Guerra
"+Cubapanablacc That their is only one Spanish country and that the rest of the countries are Spanish speaking not Spanish. They have their own identity that makes them unique and many and fought and died to become free and independent countries.

No one can question their is Hispanic and Latin influence in these countries but they are not longer under Spanish rule and by calling them Spanish countries it implies that they are.

I just don't think that is fair with all the lives lost fighting for freedom and Independence. It would mean that all the people who fought for their countries to be independent died in vain."

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23. Karen Rodriguez
"+Michael Perez are you getting this info from Wikipedia bru?"

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24. Grimm Reaper
"+Jerome Theseus Caribbean slavery was worse than American."

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25. Jerome Theseus
"+Grimm Reaper How? When every caribbean island still have their African roots and culture still around. Such as this video here. Pay attention"

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26. Grimm Reaper
"+Jerome Theseus
I am not sure what you're trying to say. When you see an African American twerking that ass for the 'gram isn't that part of African culture? Or cornrowing their hair? Or eating yams? Because that's about all WE have."

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27. Jerome Theseus
"+Grimm Reaper Shut up... just stop"

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28. Grimm Reaper
"+Jerome Theseus
Lol, why? Why do you think we have our culture in tact because these dances are around? Do you know the symbolism behind them? Why they were practiced?"

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29. hector rivera
"+Dulce Agua Del Pozo Toda música del caribe o afrocaribena tiene origen de África. El Guaguanco de Cuba, el merengue de República Dominicana, la bomba, todos tienen raíces africanas, pero cuando cada país le pone su toque propio y la mezcla con el ambiente en que está, entonces ese ritmo se define propio y ahí es cuando ese ritmo se hace oriundo de ese país. Si no todo el caribe tocaría la misma música. Lo de "mezcla con árabe" esta es la primera vez que escucho eso."
-snip-
"Dulce Agua Del Pozo All music from the Caribbean or Afro-Caribbean originates from Africa. The Guaguanco of Cuba, the merengue of the Dominican Republic, the bomba, all have African roots, but when each country puts its own touch and mix with the environment in which it is, then that rhythm defines itself and that's when that rhythm He is a native of that country. If not all the caribe would play the same music. The "mix with Arabic" is the first time I hear that. "

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30. I chew the bone to the merum 123
"Cuban Pana sorry that was my brother he likes to fight with people"

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31. Cubapanablacc
+James Castro lol It's all good bro
-snip-
"James Castro" appears to be a former user name for "I chew the bone to the merum 123"

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32. I chew the bone to the merum 123
"+Cubapanablacc true cuba has bomba too"

****
2017
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33. Rio Cappuccino
"yes thats very true a lot of them are blind to their own roots,,Latinos are respected to some small degree more for the practice and memory of the mother land"

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34. Herminio Román Morales
"La bomba es un genero musical que se crea en Puerto Rico, principalmente en zonas costeras con mayor concentración de esclavos. Los pueblos de Mayaguez, Cangrejos (Santurce), Loiza , Ponce ,Guayama, Santa Isabel y Juana Diaz entre otros, fueron la cuna de los varios estilos que conforman la bomba puertorriqueña. Usualmente cuando se explican estos diversos estilos se agrupan por estas regiones geográficas. No obstante en todo Puerto Rico pueden encontrarse unas características generales en la bomba. La misma se toca con dos o mas tambores llamados barriles. Tambien se utiliza una maraca que la toca un cantaor y unos palitos que se tocan contra el costado de uno de los barriles o contra una bambua, y se les llama cuá. La bomba se define como un duelo entre el bailador y el tocador del tambor que se denomina como subidor o primo y que va marcando los golpes que el bailador hace.

En la región de Santurce, se desarrollan los estilos conocidos como:

Sicá – Ritmo de bomba mas conocido y que fuera comercializado por Cortijo y su combo en las décadas del ’50 y ’60.
Yubá –Ritmo en compás de 6/8 de mucho sentimiento.
Cuembé – Ritmo parecido al Sicá pero con un golpe adicional.
Holandé – Ritmo rápido parecido en algunos golpes a la plena.
Adicional a estos, hay otros estilos que utilizan estos patrones rítmicos pero se diferencian ya sea por su forma de cantarse o bailarse. Ejemplo de estos son el Paulé, Gracimá, Cocobalé, Danué y Calindá entre otros.

En el area sur (Ponce, Guayama, Santa Isabel, Juana Diaz, entre otros) se desarrollaron los siguientes estilos:

Guembé – Basicamente igual que el Cuembé de santurce pero un poco mas lento.
Lero – Parecido al Yubá pero con un golpe adicional.
Belén – Ritmo lento usualmente usado para temas melancólicos
Cunyá – Ritmo donde predominan los golpes graves del tambor
Al igual que en la región de Santurce, en el sur hay vertientes dentro de esos patrones basicos y hay algunos patrones que han desaparecido ya que no se sabe como sonaban.

En el area de Loiza se conocen dos estilos principales:

Seis Corrido – Ritmo rápido y fuerte. Es el mas conocido del area.
Corvé – Ritmo rápido pero a 6/8 como el Leró y el Yubá.
Tambien existe un estilo del area de Canovanas y Carolina conocido como Hoyo Mula parecido al Seis Corrido pero mas lento."
-snip-
The bomba is a musical genre created in Puerto Rico, mainly in coastal areas with a higher concentration of slaves. The towns of Mayaguez, Cangrejos (Santurce), Loiza, Ponce, Guayama, Santa Isabel and Juana Diaz among others, were the cradle of the various styles that make up the Puerto Rican bomba. Usually when explaining these diverse styles are grouped by these geographical regions. However throughout Puerto Rico can be found some general characteristics in the pump. It is played with two or more drums called barrels. Also used is a maraca that is played by a singer and some sticks that are played against the side of one of the barrels or against a bamboo, and are called cuá. The bomb is defined as a duel between the dancer and the drum player that is called as a subidor or cousin and that is marking the blows that the dancer makes.

In the Santurce region, the styles known as:

Sicá - The best known pump rhythm ever marketed by Cortijo and his combo in the 50s and 60s.
Yubá - Rhythm in compass of 6/8 of much feeling.
Cuembé - Rhythm similar to Sicá but with an additional blow.
Dutch - Fast rhythm similar in some hits to full.
In addition to these, there are other styles that use these rhythmic patterns but they differ either by their way of singing or dancing. Examples of these are Paulé, Gracima, Cocobalé, Danué and Calindá among others.

In the southern area (Ponce, Guayama, Santa Isabel, Juana Diaz, among others) the following styles were developed:

Guembé - Basically the same as the Cuembé de santurce but a little slower.
Lero - Similar to the Yuba but with an additional blow.
Belén - Slow rhythm usually used for melancholic themes
Cunyá - Rhythm where the drum beats are predominant
As in the Santurce region, in the south there are slopes within those basic patterns and there are some patterns that have disappeared since you do not know how they sounded.

In the area of Loiza two main styles are known:
Six Run - Fast and strong rhythm. It is the best known in the area.
Corvé - Fast pace but 6/8 as the Lero and the Yuba.
There is also a style of the area of Canovanas and Carolina known as Hoyo Mula similar to the Six Run but slower."

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35. hrivera007
"Herminio Román Morales gracias por la información"
-snip-
"Thanks for that information"

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36. Emmia B
"Exactly....African Americans are quite confused....especially when it comes to race, ethnicity and nationality....I guess because I'm from the Caribbean I know some black people speak Spanish because their slave masters were Spaniards and other black people speak english because their slave masters were English"

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37. Natchitoches Levi
"Loving this argument lol. People don't realize that Indigenous Blacks are still in Greece and Italy and Sicily. SMH. The total erasure of Black influence just about everywhere. Sad. It is WELL documented like you said...Black Moorish/Hebrew influence on Europe, not just Iberia but in all Europe. People don't know anymore because they don't know history, the arts and only know what they are taught which is essentially a coverup of the facts."

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38. Cubapanablacc
"Natchitoches Levi of course but because whites made it a point to try and degrade us just for being black, we got many of our brothers and sisters out there confused, and trying their hardest to be anything but black. its sad"

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39. Diego Gaud
"Bueno que es ser afro hispano
-snip-
"Well, it's about being an Afro-Hispanic"

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40. hector rivera
"To end this great discussion I'm just going to say... I find so Sexy the first Bomba dancing lady."

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41. Reina Mora
"Cubapanablacc Si somos latinos americanos y caribeños no podemos sacar a los Tainos o nativos americanos de nuestra cultura, ellos son la base de nuestra existencia especialmente en Puerto Rico. Unos de nosotros nos veremos más blancos, otros negros, otros más cobrizos como los indígenas y así sucesivamente, pero el junte de todos ellos es lo que somos hoy y en el caso de Puerto Rico tampoco podemos sacar la gran inmigración catalana, italiana a través de los corsos que son de descendencia italiana. franceses, alemanes, ingleses ect Puerto Rico tiene una mezcla genética del mundo entero y debemos sentirnos felices de eso."
-snip-
"Cubapanablacc If we are Latin American and Caribbean we can not take the Tainos or Native Americans from our culture, they are the basis of our existence especially in Puerto Rico. Some of us will look more white, others black, others more copper like the Indians and so on, but the reunion of all of them is what we are today and in the case of Puerto Rico we can not get the great Catalan and Italian immigration through Of the Corsicans who are of Italian descent. French, German, English ect Puerto Rico has a genetic mix of the whole world and we should feel happy about it."

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42. Franco Campos
"Agradece que hay tainos sino las mujeres no fueran tan bellas.. las africanas no convencen saludos
-snip-
"Thank you that there are Tainos but the women were not so beautiful .. the Africans do not convince greetings"

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43. Cubapanablacc
"Reina Mora no es que queremos a sacar los tainos y los espanoles. solo estamos diciendo don't deny the African parts or try to down play the black role"
-snip-
"Not that we want to get the Tainos and the Spaniards. We are just saying don't deny the African parts or try to down play the black role"

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44. Alex James
"+Emmia B. Well in Latin America we are not in denial us Puerto Rican and Dominican and south Central American know that we are all mixed race and don't stick to one like the US so stop your hate and I'm proud to be Latino not black not white not indigenous just Latino with many mix races and Beautiful culture and our people of all color fought together!!! So keep that racist mentally away"

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45. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...what are you talking about???...stop the hate?...who is hating?...a lot of you guys are confused....and at the end of the day latino is not a race...its an ethnicity where different races of people share the same culture...lets not sit here and act like some of the poorest people in latin america and latin Caribbean arent the poorest of the poor because of tgeir race...so lets not sit here and act like "race" isnt a thing in latin America and everybody is holding hands sing kumbaya...like I said before some of you guys are in denial...accept the truth and move on...thank youuuuu!!!"

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46. Alex James
"Emmia B. 🚫👎🏾😒😡Where you from???? In Latin American hunny people don't care about race because they are fuxking mix so they dont thinks about race, unlike the f---king* racist blacks and whites of the United States and until Latins come to this country you see color!! Even if your mix child in the United States that's irrelevant you are not consider mix you are consider black!!! Latins don't care for race they all share a bit of every race and make one beautiful culture!!! Of all colors!! You are full of hate there nothing wrong with expressing a single race out your mixture but denying the fact that majority of Latino are either mestizo, mulatos, or Creoles is like a stab in the culture where as a group of people we have face poverty together no matter the race!!! But people like you from US who are brainwash can't see mixture just race and division that's whats wrong with y'all. so sip on your cup of coffee and sip it slow!!! I'm Dominican/Nicaraguan from my dad and my mom is Puerto Rican/colombian in blood flows a beautiful culture and long history of my people of all races! i live in miami you see the beauty in diversity but i guess you cant so Byeee ✌🏾️"

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46. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...lol...didnt read your whole story book...gtfoh with everyine is mixed and they dont see race in latin america...lmao...non black latinos are some of the most racist people in the world...you are one of the in denial ones Im talking about...boy bye!!!!"

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47. Alex James
"Emmia B. Read it hoe get educated. bye racist!!! You will die in your hate and when you get old you will see that you were just a spec on this planet you can die being black or white and no one would care bye ✌🏾️✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾"

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48. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...how am I being racist?...you should look up the meaning of racism or a racist ...clearly you dont know what you are talking about on any subject...Im a hoe?...lol...YOU also need to look up the definition of that...yes...we are all just a spec..but the concept of race is an issue on earth...and people are treated good or bad depending on their race...so lets again not live in denial...but...accept the truth and fix it...bye Mr. Delusional!!!"

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49. Alex James
"Emmia B. Bye keep living with your prejudice eyes they won't take you anywhere ✌🏾️"

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50. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...oh now Im prejudice...I see you went and looked up the definition of racism...lol...you are a joke!!!...I will keep living with my eyes open...Im not colour blind or race blind...I see and I am aware of what goes on in the world and around me...and I will work hard to help change the horrible things that go on because some people think that black is less than...so thank you...and you keep living with blinders over your eyes...that helps no one in the long run... you are good at being delusional, I'll give you that....congrats!!!!"

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51. Alex James
"+Emmia B. I didn't read your fictional story and I bet your not even Latin try to go Latin America there's no fully white people of anything they make 1 percent of the population in most Latin country they are mix ignorant racist loser I bet you are an American black full of hate towards whites and have the need to divide Latins to also join your hatred views, whatever your sad bye ✌🏾️ 🖕🏽👏🏾✋🏾

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52. Emmia B
"+Alex James .....I guess the afro latinos Ive met are liars and what Ive seen in documentaries are all made up...and Im not American by the way...you just keep getting things wrong Alexandra"

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53. Alex James
"+Emmia B. You don't sounds like you been to Latin countries it seems you get your facts from mouth and please tell me where the Afro Latinos friends are from that you know?... I guaranteed you that they are mix with other races my point exactly the Caribbean most Dominicans and Puerto Rican are creole and mulatos while Cuban mostly mulatos they make most of the population creole are Taino Indian aka Native American, blacks, and white mix together, most south and centra american country have meztizo which is white and Native American and creole people as well also many which are mix other indigenous population the only Latin American country predominantly white with some meztizo are Argentinas. Latinos are so mix that there ancestral lineage is so diverse. I'm Latino and I might not be classify as a separate race for you but I'm sure a total different culture and history and race is so unimportant from you. maybe you should meet more Latino people and see how diverse and multi color and unique the family structure is damn and if you can't go to Latin American come to "Miami Florida" I live here is practically Latino American of the United States! Bye boo ✌🏾️✋🏾👍🏾"

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54. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...blah..blah...blah...i ain't reading that sh&t.*"

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54. Alex James
"+Emmia B. Didn't read your sh&t* bye ✌🏾️"

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55. Alex James
"+Emmia B. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✌🏾️"

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56. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...bye Alexandra!!...lol"

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57. Alex James
"+Emmia B. Bye 👏🏾✌🏾️"

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58. Kiki Learns Languages
"It actually wasn't. The Caribbean and South American slaves were worked to death and new Africans were shipped in by the abolishment of slavery around the world (at different times) the slaves were newcomers. Gullah black Americans have more of their African heritage because they lived on isolated Sea islands with no bridges. The same with blacks in Lousiana voodoo, red rice ---a derivative of African jollof rice."

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59. Emmia B
"+Kiki Learns Languages ....uhmmm...caribbeans held on to a bit more african culture...they held on to some of their folk
dancing...music...language...food...I see what you are saying though about those certain parts that you mentioned"

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60. Emmia B
"+Kiki Learns Languages ...I never knew they had red rice that is derivative of jollof rice...I learned something new"

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61. Dia Nuevo
"Cubapanablacc survived? mi hermano si esto es tradicion boricua, herencia de nuestros ancestros. Esto es música que vive en nosotros , herencia que celebramos con gozo. en fin parte de nuestro diario vivir.
y ninguna invasión, de ningun lado va cambiar eso.

boricuas de pura cepa."
-snip-
"My brother if this is tradition boricua, inheritance of our ancestors. This is music that lives in us, an inheritance that we celebrate with joy. In part part of our daily life.
And no invasion, nowhere will that change.

Boricuas of pure strain."

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62. Dia Nuevo
"Espanol Guerra exacto en Puerto Rico, somos boricuas, y con tan solo una herencia la puertorriqueña, nacida de la mezcla de la cultura africana con la taina y la española. pero en fin es puertorriqueña, boricua.

en esta isla no nos diferenciamos como blancos o negros , o afro latinos, o latinos. No, en esta isla TODOS, somo Borinqueños.
y la bomba y plena, es nuestra herencia."
-snip-
"Espanol Exact war in Puerto Rico, we are Puerto Rican, and with only a Puerto Rican heritage, born of the mixture of African culture with Taino and Spanish. But in the end it is Puerto Rican, Puerto Rican.

On this island we do not differentiate ourselves as whites or blacks, or Afro Latinos, or Latinos. No, on this island, everyone is Borinquen.
And the bomba and plena is our inheritance

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63. Dia Nuevo
"Emmia B white latino? thats the most retarded thing i have heard. latino is still latino regarsless of skin tone.
the same way, el boricua es boricua sin importar el color de piel."
-snip-
Boricua is boricua regardless of skin color"
-snip-
"Boricua" = Puerto Rican

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64. Emmia B
"+Dia Nuevo ..uhmmm...skin tone?...race, is more like it...latino is not a race...its an ethnicity in which different races share the same culture...please...and the white people from spain who brought over african slaves and forced the indigenous americans to speak spanish and follow their white culuture...so yes...i meant white latino...stfu, if you dont even know your own history"

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65. Alex James
"+ Emmia B. You just full of hate hunny in the end of the day hunny we die and we are just all dust so suck on that 😂"

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66. Alex James
"Cubapanablacc. 👍🏼"

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67. Gloria Cunningham
"Cubapanablacc you right my brotha"

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68. Dreadman LV
"To those saying afro Americans lost there African culture this is not true. It just came in a more dicreet compared to our brothers and sisters in the Carribean and South/central America when you look at our way speaking for example Black Vernacular English(Ebonics) that is African in influence when you look at music like early acoustic blues they way they play the guitar, that has African influence even bluegrass music which has the banjo which is an African instrument(look up the banja and akonting) and also soul food which is very similar to cuisine eaten in West African countries like Ghana. And not forget the black church and how worship and music is done VERY AFRICAN it's just through the prism of a strong European dominance so it doesn't show as pronounced as day in Puerto Rico our Cuba."

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69. ubapanablacc
"Dreadman LV look at the youth of African Americans in the U.S. now. most watching things like this laugh and make fun of it. how do I know? I was born and raised in N.Y. and live in the south and when ni&&as* see this they laugh and start saying a bunch of bullsh&t*. in the Caribbean most of those African dialects are still spoken amongst the communities where a lot of them were pushed to reside. I don't see any youths dancing conga or playing drums or even wanting to participate in any event. the reason is here in the U.S blacks have been conditioned to be more like Europeans."

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70. Dreadman LV
"Cubapanablacc My brother that is because unfortunately there has been a disconnect especially more so today with AA youth they don't recognize there own culture in front of them but some do. but you also have to see at least to me many of my brother s and sisters through out the diaspora create a speeration as well which I think comes from having too much National pride and not recognizing that have a shared culture with AA here. And again because how slavey was in the United States especially the denial of the drum made alot of our culture come less pronounced than in Cuba and Puerto Rico. I'd say as much as the AA here need to recognize their culture in Afro Latin diaspora the Afro Latinos should learn research and see the African roots here in the USA"

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71. Dreadman LV
"Cubapanablacc Also I'm an AA who is a n aspiring Percussionist (Congas etc) that has a strong interest in Afro-Latin music so not all don't realize the connection"

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72. Cubapanablacc
"Dreadman LV that's just it. when you speak to most AA's here in the U.S. for the most part they don't recognize afro-Latinos as being family and that stems from years of conflict. when a black man such as myself starts speaking Spanish in front of African Americans, the first thing they say is Ohh I thought you were black. my response always is I am black, me speaking another language doesn't change my race, but a lot not all but majority especially here in the south don't seem to understand that"

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73. Kiki Learns Languages
"Some black Latinos say they are not a color they are Dominican, Puerto Rican etc. Many Latinos get upset if you claim them as black. There are some Latinos in America who don't think black Latinos exist. This Afro-Panamanian Youtuber said Latinos never believe she is Latina and ask her why she has pelo malo if she's Latina. Another Afro-Venezuelan said people ask her to prove it by speaking Spanish. Another Colombiana said it was the same, people don't believe she's Latina and she moved to the USA when she was 12.
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"pelo malo" = bad hair

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74. Dreadman LV
"Cubapanablacc It's just ignorance and of lack of knowledge. But it up to you and me and others to help educate and bridge the gap and not separate. You to remember these or ppl who only grew up around those like themselves and there only exposure to Latin culture was most likely not Afro Latino"

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75. Cubapanablacc
"Kiki Learns Languages you're definitely right about that, but that's why people like me are here to make sure we all understand that we aren't really different despite a language"

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76. Cubapanablacc
"Dreadman LV definitely bro 100%."

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77. Joseph C. Lee
"Cubapanablacc We don't know because we are innocently ignorant about this, the way many non African Americans are unaware of U.S. slavery and the Black codes and Jim crow. This is why we need to unite by race instead of limiting ourselves by ONLY identifying with just our ethnicities."

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78. Dreadman LV
"Joseph C. Lee completely agree. And Would be Nationality not ethnicty."

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79. Kiki Learns Languages
"I'm not. AA have to want to learn."

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80. spanish rampage
"just one guy made that comment and now you're generalizing? how do you know the guy who made that comment is a white latino...now i'm SMH"
-snip-
SMH = "shaking my head" (usually a saying and not a gesture to denote exasperation, annoyance, etc.)

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81. Alex James
"Kiki Learns Languages. F---K* READ GURL🚫😡👎🏽You are so wrong! You want latinos to say so bad that they are black but they can't claim to there Native American side either or white side? Latinos don't even say they are white that's bullsh&t* the reason why here in the us latinos say they are are put as white is because in the US we live a system of race black and white Americans only care about race so when Latinos started coming to the US they didn't know where to categorize them so they were automatically categorize as white in ballots. But if you even go to Latin America Is not that they are IGNORANT is that race is not a big part of the culture all Latino are so multiracial that claiming as only black insults your history Latinos are more than a race we are define as a culture as a whole single group of people. Black American so racist just as white Americans your hate has blind and even if a child here is born biracial he will be just known as a black child wherever he goes. Latinos do have a preferences in lighter skin but that's in every group of color people asians, Indians, naive Americans and even African blacks always prefer lighter skin individuals so don't come at me saying Latinos ignore darker skin Latinos they chose to f---k* whoever they choose and that's not your choice you can't sit behind a computer and expect to make a change by demanding Latinos to choose darker people when Jamaican and African also choose lighter individual evens African Americans it can be because of Colonialism or it can be due that usually workers work in the sun and are darker and rich people are lighter cuz they work indoors even Asian did that so whatever the reason Latinos don't proclaim as black white or Native American which most are mix to we just say we are Latinos we don't fit with black Americans or white American why cuz Latinos have there own culture music language and it has divided us stop trying to win a battle of hate cuz you only have hate in your heart, trust me girl white people are not out to kill you so chill ✌🏽"

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82. spanish rampage
"you know something, before there were any Africans in North America they were already living in the Carribean, so there is a longer history of Africans in the carribean. And do you know that there is no one word in Spanish to degrade a black person, you know words like ni&&e*r ect, there are quite a few in the English"

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83. Kiki Learns Languages
"Well I know black Colombians in Colombia. They are putting up black power signs and wearing dashikis and many have kinky type 4 hair. I speak to one daily. All latinos are not mixed some are 80% African."

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84. Alex James
"Kiki Learns Languages. Have you seen the population yes they are who are not mix but they make up less than %10 if not less of the population there's also full whites in Colombians and full indigenous native Americans tribes so what's your point??? I didn't see no point in your comment just cuz you talk to a black Colombian doesn't give you a whole spectrum of all Latinos try to come to Miami here with have Latin from everywhere Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Rican's, Colombians, Nicaraguan, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Peruvians and more yes there full blacks full white and full indigenous but they don't make most of the population even in Dominican Republic most Dominicans have white ancestry and a bit of Taino Indian Native American just like the puerto Ricans but puerto ricans have more Native American ancestry but most Latin are not concern like you about race cuz it's not important in Latin America most are poor and family all have all type of shades of color one of my cousin she's really black while my my other cousins she's very white and most are shades of brown and it doesn't mean I'm going to start picking sides proclaiming as white, black or Native I'm just Latinos we are the future and you hate will one day end when everyone is like Latinos mix to the point where race is a thing of the pass until than while you think you bringing peace you only diving and creating more hate ✌🏽"

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85. Christine Nieves
"Cubapanablacc exactly the Black Moors ruled Europe for 700 years.."

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86. Emmia B
"+Alex James ...bullsh&t!!!*"

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87. Christine Nieves
"Alex James Cre·ole
ˈkrēˌōl/Submit
noun
1.
a person of mixed European and black descent, especially in the Caribbean."

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88. Dia Nuevo
"Kiki Learns Languages because all puertorican are and treat eachother like puerto ricans, and so do dominicans. We are way passed race issues, we are all brothers.
maybe Americans of the USA should learn that."

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89. Christine Nieves
"Dia Nuevo not true.. Puerto Ricans always degrade persons of color. Please my father had an afro and talked sh&it* about Black Americans. I'm like dude look in the Mirror."

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90. Emmia B
"+Dia Nuevo ..thats not true!!!"

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91. Alex James
"Emmia B. Yea go always don't reply my stuff you are full of hate and a racist I don't talk to people who have no sense of mind you keep trolling this comments like its your job"

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92. Alex James
"Christine Nieves. Latinos, Haitians, and even African talk about about black American why???? Tell me why? Because of the way they act don't act here that only Latinos talk sh&t* about blacks that's not true blacks in the US are mostly the once you see in tv of doing crime so generally people try not to associate with black Americans even other black ethnicities themselves It has to do wok culture not color learn the difference so do me a favor and look at yourself in the mirror"

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93. Alex James
"Christine Nieves. First creole means mixture doesn't have to be race, example Haitians speak creole because is a mixture of French and African language. Mulatos means between black and white race, mestizo means between Native Americans and white and creole talking about race means all mixture I can tell your not Latino you didn't know that common terminology next time do a little more research. And I'm not trying to hate but Latin are not even worry about racial issues cuz everyone is f--king* mix

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94. Dreadman LV
"Alex James That's the problem they take what they see through media as the absolute truth instead of being open and trying learn about the AA culture and see the connection"

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95. spanish rampage
"+Kiki Learns Languages the ones you see on this video are direct desendants of Africa, they're from the town of Loiza."

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96. Christine Nieves
"Alex James my father's dead but that's how a lot of Puerto Ricans think. I really could care less. I am proud of my culture it is rich and vibrant. I don't need to look in the mirror because I am not ashamed of my color. Good day... Think positive.."

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97. Christine Nieves
"Alex James I'm Puerto Rican. First generation born in Chicago. look up the definition of the meaning of Creole."

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98. Alex James
"Christine Nieves. I already gave you the definition of creole I even gave you example do you want the me to use in a sentence?. If you Puerto Rican how you don't know what's creole, mestizo or even multalos but let me stop explaining usually ignorance doesn't admit his ignorance, i didn't really see you point with you defining what's creole. Which is also a language of Haiti which means mix. Check please ✌🏽"

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99. Alex James
"Christine Nieves. I'm proud to Hispanic but don't retract from what you said you said he complain about blacks people in my family we have all shades of colors even my dark skin relatives complain about African Americans is not there skin color is the way blacks in the US are raised, Haitians And Nigerians are black there parents are strict and they don't like to be associated with African Americans because is more culture and not of color. Do you understand? Don't sit back and act like Latin people hate blacks we just don't want to be associate with a culture difference from ours where there kids are raised different Latinos have a more strong family structure than African American that's why many are here racist blacks who want Hispanic so bad to admit that they African when Hispanic know they are dark skin but also have light skin people in the family we don't choose race or color like the racist Americans we have go beyond that. In my family I have dark skin cousins light cousins and brown skins cousins I'm not going to sit back and choose a side to please the racist people"

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100. Joseph C. Lee
"Alex James Perdón. Yoi lnow nothing about black people in America. So unless you working to eradicate the damage we have been through, keep your thoughts to yourself. I am glad your culture is intact to an extent. We would be killed practicing our native culture. Our tongues would we be ripped out if we spoke our native languages. Please research and educate yourself and stop being indoctrinated."

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101. Christine Nieves
"Joseph C. Lee truth.. People only know half truths... You are correct. I'm so sick of the lies"

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102. spanish rampage
"+Joseph C. Lee c'mon stop with the exaggerations...who'd rip your tongue out huh??,"

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103. Alex James
"Joseph C. Lee. 😡🚫🚫👎🏽👎🏽👎🏽Ohhh wow tell me what black American go through please tell me ??? Go ahead educate me!! Don't tell me slavery because your ancestor just like mines when thought it so don't give me that bullsh&t* what black American go through in in US don't tell me kill by cops when more white males are kill by cops but the media doesn't say that sh&t* cuz it doesn't give them rating, when more American blacks commit more crime than any other "ethnicities" black Americans are lazy as f--k* and racist they want Hispanic to join there army of hate! Listen Latinos are mix many ancestors of slaves as well and they come to this country the United States poor and work hard to make to school even if its its illegal while blacks get all type of benefits but that's not enough to so please tell me your struggle go ahead. Latinos and Haitians come come to this country and work hard to be successful Latinos and Haitians have tight family structure which American blacks are single parent who just complain that the government doesn't support y'all and when someone ask what's your struggle you can't even give me 1 f--king* reason"

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104. Alex James
"Joseph C. Lee. Like my last comment said it all educate me give 1 reason go ahead"

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105. Joseph C. Lee
"Alex James Lol. Bye Alex. You don't know anything about my ancestors. We are our ancestors (look up epigenetics and transgenerational trauma), it is not my job to educate you. No one educated me. I educated myself with the guidance of my ancestors drawing me to people and books and so on that have opened my eyes. Also, how do you know so much about the American FBI statistics saying that black people do more violence (actually based on the FBI website white people do more crime). At the end of the day please go be humble and sit down. I'm not trying to entertain anyone who is indoctrinating fallacies while he or she doesn't even have a picture up. 🙄Bye! 👋🏿

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106. Alex James
"Joseph C. Lee. Yea you want to tell people what to believe but can't answer a f--king* question or give an explanation I'm not not sitting entertaining someone unlike I educate idiots who are Blind in there hate towards white people that need approval to move ahead in life. Stop acting like your going through slavery because you have no idea what your ancestors when thought slavery wasn't last week so stop saying that's your struggle!!! I came from ancestors who were also slaves as well and I don't let that shit put me down its not a peddle stone for white people to feel sorry for me!!! Yes black Americans commit more crime don't even look at statistic just turn on your news and see who is robing places and killing there own fellow blacks! Exactly!!! You act like white people are killing you when more blacks kill blacks!! But your lazy ass can't educate yourself because you are so busy watching CNN news and burning streets and defending criminals!!"

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107. Dia Nuevo
"Christine Nieves so now i degrade my own black mother and she degrades herself huh? dont be atupid, in PR we are so mixed that a light skin kid will have a dark skin mom, is very normal.

and aure we make fun of each other, but in the end of the day we all treat eachother like puertoricans. so dont talk bs. in puerto rico we are all boricuas."

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108. Dia Nuevo
"Christine Nieves yoy are talking bullsh&t* without wver having lived in the island."

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109.Joseph C. Lee
"Alex James Lol. How ignorant you are. 😭😭😭😭"

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110. Unicorn Tacos
"I am so glad to see that there are some Afro-Latina/o that actually accept their African roots. Alot of them like to avoid it. "

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111. Unicorn Tacos
"Michael Perez Please stop spreading false info."

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112. spanish rampage
"+Unicorn Tacos not all dark skinned latinos have African DNA, my family comes from the mountain town of Corozal, our roots are Taino and Spanish no African DNA. A good half of my family are Dark skinned from my mothers Taino/Spanish side and the other half are white or light skinned coming from my fathers Spanish side. Back in the day there was no use for African slaves in the mountain towns since the farmers were very poor and tradicionally the farms were family run and worked. Africans mostly populated the costal towns where the sugarcane and tabacoo plantations were located. Maybe if there was a wealthty hacienda owner in the mountain range areas he had African servants but that was rare because Taino women were more likely used as servants. I can't claim what i'm not."
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This is the last comment in this discussion sub-thread as of 7/18/2017 at 2:05 PM. Several of these comments were made one day ago which demonstrates that this is still a “hot” sub-thread [the discussion isn’t ended and the sub-thread will probably have additional comments].

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